[00:01] Announcer:
Welcome to Principal Center Radio, helping you build capacity for instructional leadership. Here's your host, Director of the Principal Center, Dr. Justin Baeder. Welcome, everyone, to Principal Center Radio.
[00:13] Justin Baeder:
I'm your host, Justin Baeder, and I'm honored to welcome to the program Dr. Darren Thompson. Darren, a Thompson PhD, is a veteran K-12 leader with nearly 20 years of experience and is founder of Pivotal Leaders Group. A two-time outstanding principal of the year semifinalist for Fairfax County Public Schools, Dr. Thompson has led transformative school improvement efforts across multiple school divisions, resulting in double-digit gains in student outcomes and significantly closing achievement gaps for historically underserved populations. a regular presenter at conferences such as NAESP and NASSP's United Conference, the Making Schools Work Conference, and the Virginia Alliance of Black School Educators Conferences.
[00:50]
Dr. Thompson has contributed to Education Week, the Journal of Urban Learning, Teaching, and Research, and other publications. And he's the author of the new book, The Four Cornerstones of Effective Schools, How to Build Lasting Success.
[01:03] Announcer:
And now, our feature presentation.
[01:06] Justin Baeder:
Dr. Thompson, welcome to Principal Center Radio. Pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk about your cornerstones of effective schools. And I wonder if you could start by framing for us what you saw happening in the field and what you had seen in your work leading schools that created a gap that you sought to fill with this book.
[01:25] Darin Thompson:
Well, for me, the journey started with me being a part of the school improvement team as a teacher leader very early on in my career. And as A member of that team, you know, we were hyper focused on getting the results, but getting results that were steady, sustainable, and also real and not wanting to have to replicate the same process every year for progress, just to stall or fade for that matter. And personally, for me, I didn't want to keep working myself to the point of near burnout and questioning whether or not I should walk away from the profession altogether, because We weren't getting the results despite all of our hard work. And unfortunately, the only solution that was available, like in many schools, was to just go back, pile on some new strategies, some new interventions, and push even harder.
[02:18]
And after a while, it felt like insanity, honestly. We were doing the same thing over and over. expecting different results and the results weren't shifting. And the truth is, you know, as a member of that team, we had to get it right because student success hinged on it. And I remember having a conversation with one of my mentors one day, and I was talking about this problem. I was venting, you know, very frustrated and he shared with me something.
[02:46]
He said that, you know, what you're experiencing is a gap in your systems around improvement, a gap that prevents the actions and the efforts from aligning with the improvement goals. And that's when it hit me when I really looked at the nature of the work, the nature of the work. When we talk about school improvement is exclusively technical in nature. We're talking about goal setting, putting strategies in place, putting interventions in place, and assuming that the conditions around those things are ideal and That reality called for adaptive work once I realized that, because adaptive work is the thing that strengthens beliefs, relationships, skills, and accountability to create those ideal conditions so the technical work can thrive. And with all of that insight,
[03:38]
I dirt it out a little bit and put a framework together. And I call that framework the Pivotal Improvement Method. And that framework aligns the technical work that we see associated with traditional school improvement, and it aligns it with the adaptive work that strengthens what I call four cornerstones, leadership mindset, school culture, staff capacity, and school-wide collaboration. Again, creating those ideal conditions so the technical work can thrive. And fast forward, I became a principal after moving from teacher to teacher leader, et cetera, an assistant principal. And I said, you know what?
[04:17]
I'm going to implement this framework as a first year principal. So the school that I led. I had one area that we were struggling in. And after that first year of implementing that framework, my team and I, we were able to move our school out of what was called state monitoring status to being a fully accredited school within one year. And I continued to press on and continue to use that framework. And it allowed me to lead successful improvement across multiple school divisions.
[04:44]
And like you highlighted in the bio, some of that success encompassed double-digit gains in student outcomes, state performance that exceeded state averages, and also closing gaps for students with the greatest needs. And that framework not only allowed me to get those results, but it allowed me to lead improvement in a way where I wasn't sacrificing my well-being. I was able to lead improvement without burning out. So That's the premise of the book. The book really talks about and breaks down and walks school leaders through that framework bit by bit. There are many or micro frameworks embedded in that larger framework to strengthen those four cornerstones that I talked about.
[05:28]
That's the journey in terms of how I got here and how I became invested and passionate about school improvement and also helping other school leaders experience the same success that I had.
[05:39] Justin Baeder:
You touched on something I think is really crucial there, that it was the conditions around the work that you were doing. It wasn't the work itself, everybody's working hard, everybody's working hard at the right things, but you said there was a realization that the conditions around, the systems around the work you were doing needed to change in order for that effort to pay off, in order for the work that you were doing to have the impact that you intended. And you're saying that's what led to the four cornerstones and identifying those?
[06:06] Darin Thompson:
Absolutely. After noticing those Four things that kept surfacing when I looked at what needed to be strengthened. Those four things, again, point back to beliefs, relationships, skills, and accountability, thus forming those four cornerstones that I highlight in the book. Well, let's talk about the first of them.
[06:22] Justin Baeder:
What is the pivotal leadership mindset?
[06:26] Darin Thompson:
The pivotal leader mindset is more of a overarching theme in terms of the type of leader. And When we talk about my passion and my contribution to the profession, my goal is to build a community, a national network, I should say, of these pivotal leaders with this mindset. And what that really means is that these leaders are leaders who are actually really hyper-focused on ensuring the success of all students. They can lead improvement effectively, so they're successful at leading school improvement, but all at the same time without relying on heroics, right, that actually lead to burnout. Being able to do it while protecting their peace. So that's the pivotal leader mindset, being able to have an impact.
[07:13]
Being able to have an impact when it comes to school improvement, protecting your peace, because you shouldn't have to sacrifice your well-being to make a difference as a leader. So that's what it's all about. I know it was a long answer, but if we were to sum it up in terms of what a pivotal leader is and someone who has that mindset, it's someone who can successfully lead school improvement while protecting their peace.
[07:33] Justin Baeder:
And I think that's so crucial to preventing burnout, that idea of getting away from heroics. We tell ourselves, if I will just do what needs to be done, if I'm just willing, if I'm just putting in the work, then good things are going to follow. But we know that that's often not enough. That's not what's holding back success. It's those other things that we're talking about in addition to the hard work and the taking the right actions. And yeah, I've just seen so many people sacrifice their personal lives, sacrifice their health, their wellbeing and their time at home and things like that.
[08:03]
And I believe that it is possible to build systems that can make those personal, you know, those destructive sacrifices unnecessary for the individual. But this is not individual work that we're talking about. We're talking about collective work. Take us into some of those collective dimensions of this work.
[08:20] Darin Thompson:
After we move beyond the first cornerstone, which is leadership mindset, we start getting into things that not only build traction for successful improvement, but turn that traction into momentum. And those are the elements when we talk about the human dynamics. And the first one is staff capacity, right? And when it comes to staff capacity, We have to make sure that our staff, they have the knowledge, skills and confidence to execute on the things that you're asking of them. Right. And one of the main things when we talk about school improvement is being able to deliver high quality instruction.
[08:56]
And that comes by way of, you know, the obvious when we talk about targeted professional development and other instructional supports. In the mini framework in the book, I walk you through that, just how to build the knowledge, skills and confidence within staff. So instruction doesn't vary from classroom to classroom and student success doesn't hinge upon what teacher a student gets. And the next cornerstone, when we talk about human dynamics or the human element is school culture. And I know I flipped them around a little bit because school culture is the second one. But school culture, as we know, we know that saying culture eats strategy for breakfast.
[09:33]
But I go on to say as well, culture shapes the results and that's predicated upon what the culture supports. It can either support success or lack thereof. And so you have to have a culture that supports success. in order for successful improvement to be possible. And so with that, one of the frameworks in the book talks about how to leverage support and accountability in the right way. And this builds off of some of Anthony Muhammad's work using support and accountability, right?
[10:06]
Leveraging those things in the right way so that we have a culture of engagement and alignment versus disengagement and resistance. And then there's the last element, that last human element that revolves around school-wide collaboration. And the framework talks about that in order to have effective collaboration that leads to success, you have to have a school-wide culture where there is a shared focus on the results. Everybody is truly dedicated to collaboration, and there's also a focus on learning. And for those of us who are familiar, That's the premise or the backbone of PLC work, right? And that's what this framework is about.
[10:50]
It's about creating that atmosphere where there's shared knowledge, shared expertise, and shared accountability around getting the results. And again, it's all about adhering to PLC culture and being collaborative in such a way where we engage around those four critical questions. What students should know and be able to do? How do we know that they learned or mastered? what we want them to do or learn. And then how do we respond if they don't learn it?
[11:19]
And then how do we respond if they do? And so with the first two questions, those first two questions are all about instructional design, delivery and assessment. And questions three and four are about engaging in action research, identifying the holes in practice and the gaps in mastery, and then responding from there. So the mini framework again, walk school leaders down the pathway of being able to do just that, building teams and building a collaborative culture, whereas we are adhering to the PLC process.
[11:55] Justin Baeder:
I'm sure our listeners will be familiar with the PLC process as kind of context for a lot of what we're talking about today and those four questions. And of course, Dr. Anthony Muhammad's work, which we talked about here on Principal Center Radio. Dr. Thompson, thinking about some of the schools that you have led, what were some of the starting points for what needed to change? Drawing from your framework and thinking about, typically, It's not that nothing is wrong when a new leader is brought in and, you know, school is on a turnaround list or a state monitoring list.
[12:24]
Something often needs to change. And I wonder what you noticed in the schools that you led that needed to change drawing on your framework.
[12:33] Darin Thompson:
The two things that jumped out right away, and that was common in settings where I was responsible for doing some turnaround work, the two things that jumped out related to staff capacity and school-wide collaboration. Those were biggies. And those also have an intersection with culture when we talk about beliefs, behaviors, attitudes, and norms. And those beliefs, behaviors, attitudes, and norms influence how we deliver instruction or our mindset around student ability and whether or not we want to operate in silos or benefit from collective expertise. So speaking about those two elements, again, collaboration and staff capacity, you know, right away started noticing some things that misaligned with high quality instruction. When we talk about collaboration, you know, we often see places where we're saying we're adhering to PLC culture.
[13:29]
But we're doing what I call PLC light. You know, we're missing some steps along the way when we talk about the action research component or we're missing some steps along the way when we talk about collaboratively designing instruction assessment and planning for delivery of instruction. So those were things that right away jump out and are common in most of the settings where I was responsible for going in and doing some turnaround.
[13:52] Justin Baeder:
And often we know the terminology, right? We know what we're supposed to say, but there can still be a gap between the talk and what we're actually doing. I think back on some of the people I worked with who were like the most verbally grumpy and who would just say what they meant. You know, only years later did I realize other people were thinking the same things or had the same behaviors, but just talked differently. So you've got to close those gaps because it's not just about the talk. It's about what we actually say.
[14:20]
do to work together on behalf of students. When it comes to building capacity, I feel like we're facing some unique challenges now as a profession because people are often coming to us with less experience. And I certainly experienced the effects of turnover and seeing people come and go, and maybe the people who stay behind are not the most on top of their game. And that's always been an issue. But now we're also seeing people come in with just very little experience, very little training, maybe none at all. So the capacity assumptions need to be different.
[14:55]
Like we're not assuming that people are coming in with a master's degree and extensive training and knowing how to work with our students and just all this background that they kind of need from day one. How do you think about those issues of capacity where there's just a lot of building capacity that needs to take place?
[15:10] Darin Thompson:
That is a thing, just what you mentioned in terms of the shift, in terms of where we are with how buildings are staffed and the skill level that comes to us. And with that being said, you know, The best way to approach that when I think about it, the best way to approach it is making sure that number one, we're intentional about the support that we provide teachers to build their capacity. Often when we talk about feedback and observation, typically it's used for evaluative purpose. Like if a teacher is on cycle or evaluation at year, you know, we check the box, we do the observation, give them minimal feedback. but it's not growth producing from a standpoint of being able to shift practice so that we can see those things that are indicative of high quality instruction all right it's just to get through the evaluation process and move on to the next thing and when we miss that step especially
[16:03]
With the climate that we have right now, with the capacity, we're setting ourselves up to get the same results, right? Doing the same thing, expecting different results is what will happen, is what I'm trying to get at. And the other thing is that we miss some opportunities with professional development. And when I say that, I'm talking about teacher-led professional development. Because for me, taking that approach or using that approach, it increases commitment on behalf of staff when they see their colleagues presenting, you know, practice or sharing tips and strategies that are working for them. And so for them, it gives them a lens and a perspective when we talk about teachers.
[16:42]
It gives them the perspective that this is connected to me. This is not something being done to me. I'm a part of this when I see one of my colleagues demonstrating and sharing practices and strategies and helping me develop and coach me along the way. And then that brings me to what I just said, coaching. That's another lever that I think we miss out on a lot of the times when we talk about resources we have in our building. We have to question and ask ourselves, how are we effectively using coaches in our building to help build capacity and strengthen skills?
[17:14]
And then There's also another element, and that's the additional instructional materials and resources like you can leverage specialists, division specialists to help walk you through curriculum guides or provide curriculum guides and other materials to support your practice. And taking advantage of all of those things, I think, will give us some additional leverage and better position us to be able to build capacity effectively from the standpoint of building knowledge, skills and confidence.
[17:43] Justin Baeder:
very well said i'm glad you mentioned resources because that seems like one of those things that gets overlooked a lot to go back to your earlier comment about you know the conditions that everybody is working under if people are working without good materials without high quality instructional materials i think often we forget how many secondary courses you know middle school and high school courses just are taught with no provided materials no coaching no there's no department for a lot of the subjects that we teach so a teacher comes in and they're essentially all on their own to come up with something for students to do every day and it's no wonder that that's not starting from a place of quality materials so it's making the job harder and it's making quality instruction just that much harder i completely agree with you on that great you know that that's a good point
[18:29] Darin Thompson:
And you know, it's definitely something that we have to be intentional about in terms of our focus, in terms of how we support our staff, because we can go through the day-to-day routine of logistics and putting out fires. And we forget that we have people in our building. If we want success, student success to be a reality, we have to really invest in our people and invest wholeheartedly and intentionally. And we have to run the gamut when we talk about support ranging from, again, we're talking about growth, producing feedback on down to providing Things like instructional materials to cover all bases, you know, not just those departments who have multiple members in it, but also what I used to call lone rangers in terms of individuals who are solo, quote unquote, people say PLCs, but, you know, they're operating individually without a department, just like you said. Yeah.
[19:19] Justin Baeder:
I think historically we've valued autonomy. Like if you told teachers, hey, at our school, you get lots of autonomy. Most people would have thought that sounded like a good thing. I'm starting to pick up on a shift in the profession. I think maybe new teachers are just realizing they don't need autonomy. They need help.
[19:35]
I wonder within your framework, how do you think about autonomy and collaboration and the relationship between them? Because I don't know, are you seeing a shift as well?
[19:41] Darin Thompson:
I definitely see a shift in terms of approaching it from the perspective of autonomy, meaning, you know, respecting people's professional expertise that they already have and bring to the table, but also being willing to lean in and support and provide the help to help a great teacher become a rock star teacher. And that's how I always frame it when I talk about, you know, how I'm leaning in and why I'm coming to support. It's about, you know, improving practice from a standpoint of we don't just want great teachers. We want rock star teachers because students deserve rock star teachers. And if we have rock star teachers in every classroom, building-wide, then instruction won't vary from classroom to classroom. And that's the ultimate goal.
[20:24]
It's all about, you know, what are we doing? How are we investing in people? How are we investing, you know, our resources to ensure the success of students?
[20:33] Justin Baeder:
And I know you have a lot more that people can follow up on in the book, but I bet people are also saying, okay, I got to follow this guy online. Where can I find him? So Dr. Thompson, tell us a little bit about some of the places where people can find you online and hear more from you.
[20:46] Darin Thompson:
Oh, absolutely. I'm on YouTube and Instagram and my handles there. are at dr darren thompson no spaces i'm also on linkedin and that's just under my name dr darren thompson my website is drdarrenthompson.com and you can find me in all of those spaces my youtube channel I drop bi-weekly nuggets in terms of things that can help new and aspiring school leaders as well as veteran leaders, providing support tips and strategies, all based upon that framework that I mentioned earlier on, providing them with some research informed and practice proven nuggets.
[21:25] Justin Baeder:
Love it. So the book is The Four Cornerstones of Effective Schools, How to Build Lasting Success. Dr. Darren Thompson, thank you so much for joining me on Principal Center Radio. It's been a pleasure.
[21:34] Darin Thompson:
It's been a pleasure as well, on my end. Thank you so much.
[21:38] Announcer:
Thanks for listening to Principal Center Radio. For more great episodes, subscribe on our website at principalcenter.com slash radio.
